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Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

Last post 05-12-2008, 4:38 PM by harbars. 12 replies.
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  •  05-02-2008, 12:50 PM 10403

    Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Unfortunately I missed Spence's Kerberos presentation (twice).  Is there any where that the slides/material is posted or better still a dump of Spence's brain?

    Thanks :)


    If it bleeds, we can kill it.
  •  05-03-2008, 2:48 AM 10410 in reply to 10403

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Hi!

    The slides are over on my blog at http://www.harbar.net/archive/2008/02/29/London-SUGUK-meeting-Kerberos-and-what-not.aspx

    Of course that doesn't include the demos oand/or discussions. I am here from time to time so feel free to post any questions etc - or we can have a dialog over email.

    I *will* be posting more Kerberos stuff over the next couple months to my blog. Including the white paper when it's done and a few screencasts.

    hth

    s.


    Cheers
    Spence
    www.harbar.net
  •  05-06-2008, 12:44 AM 10434 in reply to 10410

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Spence

    Thanks for your reply.  I understand the principles of Kerberos - setting it up and its key benefits.  However its the shall I / shant I decision Im having some trouble with. 

    In this case I am planning a small farm (one MOSS web/app server and a remote SQL which is clustered).  There is also a Project Server 2007 deployment which will join the farm later.  There is also a SSRS server which is a separate box and I had double hop issues whilst deploying CRM to the same client.

    The questions I need assistance with are:

    - Will the benefits of Kerberos be noticed in this small deployment?  Hence is it worth the extra effort?

    - If I select NTLM for the Central Admin site, can I switch to Kerberos later, easily?

    - If I configure Kerberos and it isnt set u correctly, is it noticeable (i.e. errors) or does it revert to NTLM?

    Finally, you mention in your slides that you recommend to always go with NTLM first.  Can you elaborate slightly for my benefit? 

    Many thanks

    Mark


    If it bleeds, we can kill it.
  •  05-06-2008, 3:07 AM 10435 in reply to 10434

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Hi Mark.

     

    Will the benefits of Kerberos be noticed in this small deployment?  Hence is it worth the extra effort?

     

    This is very difficult to answer without hard data about the environment, namely:

     number of concurrent users

    usage profile of an average user session

    location and capacity of domain controllers

    amount of non sharepoint authN traffic

     

    However, as you only have a single MOSS server it is safe to assume you have a small number of users to support (<3k). And assuming you have a couple of reasonably specced DCs nearby you probably don’t need the performance benefits that Kerberos can bring. Bear in mind that if user sessions are shortlived, Kerberos will actually negatively impact performance due to the overhead of granting service tickets. Of course we are only talking about the performance side here. You may have security or functionality requirements that trump performance. SSRS and CRM in particular need Kerberos for some elements to function. Detailed instructions for these scenarios will be published soon.

     

    If I select NTLM for the Central Admin site, can I switch to Kerberos later, easily?

    Absolutely, this is very straightforward. You need a SPN for the application pool identity used to host Central Admin, and you can configure the web application to use Negotiate using Central Admin itself or STSADM. To just use Central Admin you don’t require any additional delegation settings, although these are required if you also wish to make your SSP and its admin web site use Kerberos.

     

    If I configure Kerberos and it isnt set u correctly, is it noticeable (i.e. errors) or does it revert to NTLM?

    It depends! By default, Fallback is in place so if Kerberos AuthN fails, NTLM will be attempted, this can often result in pop-up login dialogs for users. If you configure the application to use Kerberos only, then of course NTLM won’t work and clients will be returned a 401 error if they cannot authenticate using Kerberos. Bear in mind of course that certain functionality cannot work with NTLM – e.g. the RS Viewer web part.

     

    Finally, you mention in your slides that you recommend to always go with NTLM first.  Can you elaborate slightly for my benefit? 

    This recommendation is all about making the process easier. By sticking with NTLM initially you can be sure that SharePoint is all up and running fine before attempting Kerberos configuration. If you go with Kerberos straight away and run into problems you cannot be sure whether it’s a SharePoint issue, a Kerberos issue or indeed a Client Issue. The idea here is to make troubleshooting a bit easier. Of course if you’ve done the config a hundred times etc there’s nothing wrong with going straight for Kerberos.

     

    Again, it makes sense to not use Kerberos unless you need it. And it can be difficult to see the future! So by using NTLM first – unless you hit specific problems or requirements – you can leave it be and reduce the complexity of your deployment.

     

    hth

    Spence


    Cheers
    Spence
    www.harbar.net
  •  05-06-2008, 3:42 PM 10458 in reply to 10435

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Thanks mate for very clear and concise responses.  I now feel armed with the knowledge to make a sensible judgement - and thats all I was after.

    Much appreciated.  I'll get a beer in if I meet you at a future meet..

    Take care

    Mark


    If it bleeds, we can kill it.
  •  05-06-2008, 3:56 PM 10460 in reply to 10458

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    beer is always good :)
    Cheers
    Spence
    www.harbar.net
  •  05-08-2008, 8:08 AM 10527 in reply to 10460

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    And I thought we just did this stuff cause we were nice people :)

    on second thoughts... beer is always good :)

    Mark - you should have made one of Spence's excellent session on Kerberos. :)


    www.21apps.com
  •  05-08-2008, 10:13 AM 10533 in reply to 10527

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    I know!!  Any chance of another re-run Spence??
    If it bleeds, we can kill it.
  •  05-08-2008, 10:35 AM 10539 in reply to 10533

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Sure. I reckon it's a fair bet I'll do another similar talk, it seems to be (rather bizarely) a popular topic. It's up to Nick & Steve thou as to when/where or indeed if they wish me to speak again :)
    Cheers
    Spence
    www.harbar.net
  •  05-12-2008, 12:39 PM 10644 in reply to 10539

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Hi Spence

    Sorry I have a further question on this topic.  I understand its good practice to create 2 SPNs per App Pool account (one FQDN and one NETBIOS).

    What if you have Host Headers on your IIS Web Sites e.g. 'Intranet'.  Does this require a further SPN to be configured?

    Thanks

    Mark


    If it bleeds, we can kill it.
  •  05-12-2008, 1:22 PM 10648 in reply to 10644

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    It depends! :)

    The best practice is really for Web Applications that are created using a 'netbios' name - e.g. machine.
    These require two SPNs - one for the name that is accessed by clients (machine) and one for the fqdn (machine.domain.com).

    If using a FQDN initially when creating the web app the 'netbios' one is not neccessary.

    Each URL which clients use and for which you wish Kerberos AuthN to be used requires a SPN. So in your case, you need a SPN for 'intranet'.

     

    hth

    s.

     

     


    Cheers
    Spence
    www.harbar.net
  •  05-12-2008, 2:32 PM 10652 in reply to 10648

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Thanks!

    One more - final (honest) - question....

    Your presentation shows setting up delegation, but I notice you set delegation for all services rather than constrained delegation.

    Which do you recommend? 

    Thanks so much for your advice.

    Mark


    If it bleeds, we can kill it.
  •  05-12-2008, 4:38 PM 10658 in reply to 10652

    Re: Spence Harbars Kerbros Presentation

    Constrained Delegation is the most "secure", whilst All Services is the simplest in terms of configuration.  Constrained delegation is my preferred approach - however it adds complexity to the deployment.

    s.

     


    Cheers
    Spence
    www.harbar.net
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